Now Pirates in Headphonedom. Argh!

Tyll Hertsens's picture

Before I send you off to read an interesting document, I'd like to offer some context from my point of view. Though headphones have been around for a long, long time, it's my opinion that the headphone market as a whole is still far from mature.

Until maybe 20 years ago, headphones were thought of as accessories, and were looked down upon by audiophiles as inferior methods for reproducing audio. As a practical matter, I agreed at the time because, with the exception of Stax electrostatic cans, there really weren't many good sounding cans. I'd say the first really good sounding headphones started showing up in the early '90s, and I'd point to the Beyerdynamic DT801 and a bit later the Sennheiser HD 560 as two examples.

Because of the prevailing opinion among audiophiles that headphones sucked, these headphones got little traction for their makers until the headphone hobby began to rally and grow on HeadWize.org, and subsequently on Head-Fi.org. Once the hobby began to hum along, it took a great deal of time for headphone hobbyists to garner the numbers and expertise to develop well-formed opinions about headphones. I feel it's really only in the last five years or so that headphiles have developed the collective understanding to put well considered pressure on headphone makers to make good sounding headphones.

Unfortunately, at about the same time as hobbyists were developing their chops, Dr. Dre and Monster did their thing to whip up a frothing market for overpriced headphones among the impressionable urban youth. They were wildly successful building a market centered around fashion and bling, which had very little, if anything, to do with the art and science of audio reproduction.

We now find ourselves in a market where consumer demand and perceived value of headphones is very high, but where that perception of value has very little to do with the quality of the sound. And this market is hot, hot, hot! Audio companies of all kinds are throwing their hats in the ring as fast as they can because they know demand, margins, and profits are high; and because this market is being driven by the consuming public--a huge, though unsophisticated, force--hobbyists remain a relatively weak voice despite their ever-improving discernment.

What to do?
For the last 15 years or so, I've invested a great deal of energy in the objective measurement of headphones. I've done this because I feel the need to find a way to evaluate the audio reproduction performance of headphones in an objective way. My personal subjective evaluation of headphones is weak in the sense that it's mine alone and we all have the right to our personal opinions, so my opinion is just one among many--regardless of how expert it may be. But an objective measurement is much closer to "fact," and therefore can have much greater weight and import than a personal opinion. If objective measurements can be indicators of audio fidelity--and I believe they can--then measurements can act as a firm guide for manufacturers and enthusiasts in their efforts to design and find good headphones. Measurements provide a road map of sorts that will help orient us on our search.

I'm not alone in my desire to objectively evaluate headphones. There is a well developed science around audio reproduction, and the Audio Engineering Society has published hundreds of peer reviewed papers on the acoustics of headphones. Competent headphone design companies employ engineers trained in this science. Unfortunately, they live behind the closed doors of these manufacturers and under the same roof as the rabid marketing and PR departments that know very well that selling headphones today has less to do with sound quality, and more to do with speed to market, fashion, and celebrity endorsements. It seems to me that most companies making headphones today are simply not focused on sound quality as an important design goal. Why should they be? Consumers aren't demanding it.

Well, that's beginning to change. I may have been the first to publish headphone measurements, but I'm now far from the only source of headphone measurements on the web. Sound and Vision, Goldenears, and Reviewed.com have headphone measurements on their sites. Maybe more importantly, the headphone hobbyists themselves have started measuring headphones. I see this surge in interest in headphone measurement as an effort on the part of people who have a significant interest in headphone sound quality to speak with a voice more powerful than simple opinion about something we headphone enthusiasts have known for a long time: Most headphones suck!

Headphones may be jewelry, and headphones may be a fashion or status statement, but headphones are first and foremost a way to reproduce the art of music. Manufacturers need to get that; consumers need to get that; and until they do, satisfactory listening will be a hit and miss affair. I think the availability of headphone measurements can play an important role in focusing enthusiasts' and consumers', and thereby manufacturers', attentions on what's really important: sound quality.

But what about the pirates?
Just like raising children, moving this market from its current candy-colored adolescence toward a mature adulthood will be a messy affair prone to learning lessons by making mistakes. I tend to try to forward that maturing process here at InnerFidelity by finding really good products and applauding them, and I tend not to bother writing negative reviews of poor performers. But that's just me. Others might not be quite so polite. Others may be sick of getting excited about new offerings from makers and shelling out big bucks for what ought to be good headphones, only to be disappointed yet again by poor performance. Others may build headphone measurement systems as their weapons of war against lackluster and misguided efforts by makers in an effort to expose their weaknesses. Such is the way of the world. Enter the pirates.

Captained by Purrin and his measurement system that delivers cumulative spectral decay plots, which exposes resonances in headphones, and crewed by the likes of Anaxilus (a wizened DIYer) and Arnaud (an acoustics engineer at an automotive firm), a new forum has appeared that focuses on objective measures and discerning subjective impressions. While I think the tone and focus of attention there may sometimes be too negative and critical to be consistently constructive, I also see it as a natural pendulum swing away from the rampant fanboyism and indiscriminate "flavor of the month" excitement that has characterized the hobby previously.

The forum can be found at www.changstar.com, and as an introduction I recommend their recently released "State of the Headphone Hobby" manifesto that you'll find on this page.

Caution: There be pirates beyond.

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Comments
Willakan's picture
I'm in two minds on this one.

I'm in two minds on this one. On the one hand, more measurements are always good, especially when they're reasonably well done (if ultimately inadequate for absolute performance characterisation). I suppose they act as a guide to cut through the hype and price-tags and see which headphones you should seriously look at.

On the other hand, the tone of the linked site leans towards the dogmatic in places: the "State of the Headphone Hobby" document virtually ascribes sound signatures that "an experienced hobbiest" should hear, and dives into hyperbole on several occasions (either that or remarkably large numbers of headphones have genuinely "painful" aspects to their sound signature). In light of the vast differences in head/ear canal/pinna shapes and the significantly non-exhaustive nature of the measurements, a little restraint couldn't hurt!

This sits even more uneasily with the section on forthcoming amplifiers and DACs. I have seen individuals prominent in this new forum state nigh categorically that you'll never get even close to, say, the HD800s potential without an amplifier that's vastly more expensive. I suppose it would be too much to ask for everyone not to wax all subjectivist over the latest amplifiers, but the claims to cut through the price tags and expose how things really perform sits ill at ease with expensive amplifier/DAC recommendations.

As I said at first, this *is* undoubtedly a good thing, but at the same time I wish it was a little more sensitively approached.

ultrabike's picture
IMO there is no such thing as

IMO there is no such thing as a perfect product. But, like Tyll said, many products seem to have way too many issues at their price points, and I think the site does a good job at pointing out such flaws. It also does a great job at pointing out great products as well.

Regarding amps and DACs. There are similar reviews here and everywhere regarding TOTL products. Innerfideilty offered a review on the Apex Hi-Fi, the Red Wine, and Eddie Current Balancing Act. Tyll personally reviewed World Class Headphones using HeadAmp Blue Hawaii. Effin' Ringin' offers another perspective on this, and similar products. You may or may not disagree with the reviews here and there...

As far as pain, a DT990 gave me pain with certain songs. So yes, certain headphones, under certain conditions may not be for everyone... Measurements and impressions can forwarn people about it if they already know what sound signatures work or don't work for them, and the site does, IMO, a very good job at this.

The site also does not present itself as a toned down, politically correct source of information... There is some humor in it which some may get, and some may not. There is definitively quite a bit of good info hard to find somewhere else there. This is just my opinion, of course.

donunus's picture
Well said Ultrabike... and

Well said Ultrabike... and yes the dt990 is a torture device devil

ultrabike's picture
Totally agree. In the

Totally agree. In the begining they were OK, but as soon as I started listening to some songs with synthetizers (electronic) and cimblas... O.M.G!!! With all their flaws, I prefer my KSC-75s. I'm really enjoying my HD558s though. They are not the best thing evarrrr, but they are alright...

donunus's picture
The 558s are alright.

The 558s are alright. Slightly bright but nothing like the dt990. I kept my 558 for a few months when I had them. Anyways I think this is getting off topic for the discussion here so see ya at the other side on Effin Ringin smiley
 

Jazz Casual's picture
A more balanced approach would be helpful.

This hobby definitely has a lot of maturing to do when so called "pirates" can launch raids on another forum where they hunt in packs, abuse people who disagree and cause threads to be locked. Surely we can do better than a fringe group of headphone measurement extremists behaving like a school yard gang.  

donunus's picture
I just don't understand why

I just don't understand why you even comment if you don't like the effin ringin site. Why not just stay away if you don't like the people? Well, unless of course drama is the reason you post in the first place. Cmon people want to talk about audio here, not fight for no reason.

Jazz Casual's picture
This should already be

This should already be apparent to you from my other posts but my comments are not directed at the effin ringin site, but at the behaviour of a number of its members. As Tyll's article is about the advent of Changstar and its pirates, I think it's entirely appropriate to raise the issue within that context. I'm also happy to discuss headphone audio as well.    

Beagle's picture
Feh..

Glad to see the folks in the lab coats have isolated themselves from the fun and listening aspect of headphones. Now we music/headphone lovers can enjoy our hobby in peace instead of having to fend off criticism of our choices from "holier-than-thou" snobs.

Tyll Hertsens's picture
That's why I said ...

"Put a big bunch of us together, and we'll splinter off into smaller groups of like-minded people...who sometimes war against each other. "

[Rodney King]Why can't we all just get along?[/Rodney King]

Beagle's picture
Sure...why not

I get along with pretty much everyone. It's in my blood..

donunus's picture
People at Changstar do listen

People at Changstar do listen to cans. The point of the site is for people to know more about how measurements relate to subjective listening like Tyll does over here.... Plus, among other things the extra brutal dissing of bad headphone buys that hasn't been discussed openly practically anywhere else.

donunus's picture
This is a very cool article

This is a very cool article Tyll. Thanks for doing it!

And to Purrin again... Awesome writeup! I couldn't have said it better myself. I have been saying those things to fellow hobbyists for a while but have never said it all in one piece of work like that which is easily accessible to everyone.

arnaud's picture
History

 

Tyll, very nice read as usual (and very flattering to have you write something about the pirates forum).

 

 

It would be fun to read more about the history of the various online resources that have cropped up over the years. Actually, I personally got into headphones through headroom and headfi and I see you personally as a key person in the time line!

 

Also, as far as objective measurements go, I also view your work as reference quality, not only because of the hardware you invested into but also the exhaustive and cautious testing routines you've established. There's always room for improvements, and the most valuable thing of all is that, regardless of your extensive experience, you're always looking into what others are doing and listening to suggestions. That, to me, makes you and this site so valuable!

 

End of back patting Wink.

timmyw's picture
Arrgghh me mateys, ye walk

Arrgghh me mateys, ye walk the plank ye landlubberz! urrmm ahem... sorry don't know what came over me.

"Put a big bunch of us together, and we'll splinter off into smaller groups of like-minded people...who sometimes war against each other. "

I was thinking this exact same thing this morning when perusing Head-Case. So much factionalism, so much subjectivity in headphones. Amongst other things which I won't go into (The O2 discussion... yikes!).

Perhaps what we really need is an international standard on audio construction and reproduction. Hey it works for computer plugs. That way bad engineering, bad sound and bad headphones would become a thing of the past.

Perhaps even over inflated prices in equipment and too much loudness and distortion I hear in recordings would be a thing of the past. Imagine a recording label being fined because all of it's recordings were too loud and caused distortion hehehehe. A dream of mine.

Perhaps with the Pirates, the revolution begins!!

By the way Tyll, I have to point this out: "Dr. Dre and Monster did there thing". There? I usually let the odd incorrect word in a sentence or spelling mistake slide but I respect you too much to let this one go.

Tyll Hertsens's picture
Phoext.

Argh.  Spelling is my nemesis.

13mh13's picture
Not a huge fanboy of ... Changstar

Not sure how accurate their metrics are, but the pathosociological group that dwells there lacks a certain ... uh ... maturity.

Tyll Hertsens's picture
Maturity!?

Says the guy that posts a cat shitting here?

Who uses my avatar upside down. 

Yeah, right. indecision

13mh13's picture
Yeah, right? Absolutely, unjokingly SERIOUS!

I never qualified my own (im)maturity ... but, then, I ain't the one with a web site publishing technical info concomitantly with members whose avatars are ...

(Yup -- that's a Changstar-member avatar). Me, I luv it!

Dear Hertsy/Y'all ...  know what "Theory of Mind" is? How about "Recursive Thinking"? Wiki 'em if you don't. One of the MANY great and POWERFUL attributes of the Net ... you can toss around all kinds of "ideas" and psychologies and philosophies. Mostly on others' tab. And ... hey, since you're treatin', be sure you tip well, too!

But "seriously", "my" remarks about Changstar.com's "Maturity" are right on the mark. I like the elephant avatar best Wink

anaxilus's picture
Hmm...

First, thx to Tyll for the write-up.  As to the tone of the site, it is what it is and many people will perceive it in their own way based on whatever personal perspectives they bring to the table.  We certainly aren't out to make friends or appease anyone.  Not everyone likes or wants the same thing, which contrary to some, many of us understand.  It's as you say, just a group of like-minded folk chewing the fat and blowing off steam tempered with a modicum of objective study and progress (hopefully).  Obviously, the non like minded won't like it and might post things here like upside down avatars or complain that they didn't get along some of us even though they get along w/ everyone (more like noone).  sad   

The site isn't a marketting exercise or sociological experiment in harmony.  If anything, it's a counterreaction to both extremes currently prevailing.  A reaction against the overly sensitive that require treading on eggshells like our canine pseudonymed friend here and those that think, rather, know they have the audio engineering universe understood entirely to the point that any subjective impressions filtered via ear/brain are worth less than zero and therefore have THEY have right to tell people what they think they are hearing.  Which brings me to...

Second, Willikant who speaks to 'sensitivity' which I find ironic considering his and his camps holier than thou crusade against anyone not using an ODAC or an O2 as there sole appliances.  They often deliberatley misrepresent positions by claiming...

"I have seen individuals prominent in this new forum state nigh categorically that you'll never get even close to, say, the HD800s potential without an amplifier that's vastly more expensive."

Not only can he not find one instance of any post by our 'prominent individuals' suggesting this (because they don't exist) but it misrepresents the position entirely.  Speaking for myself, the claim would be that as of yet, there has not been a retail amp offering less than the price of the HD800 to fully realize the soundstaging and ambient micro detail retrieval its transducer is capable of extracting.  Nobody I know of from our site advocates having to spend any > X to achieve any Y sound.  If anyone wants to make an uber resolving DHT for $150 please feel free and shoot us the schematic and parts list.

Instead his position is that anyone using anything other than an O2 amp is a deluded fool seeking to burn cash for the sake of placebo.  Yes, a much friendlier and more 'sensitive' position to advocate no doubt.  All backed by indisiputable analysis of a Mazda Miata, wine tasting, digital watches and not a DBT of the O2 in sight ironically.  Btw, a few of our 'prominent' members are big fans of the O2!  surprise

So, come on down and join us for some fun y'all!  We'll sing songs and hold hands right before the scheduled Krav Maga sessions!  devil

Willakan's picture
I was almost waiting for

I was almost waiting for someone to say something about the O2. I object to people who don't characterise it as transparent based on grossly insufficient evidence. My objection here is a milder one that the evidence being used, whilst of high quality and being used to draw intelligent conclusions, does not quite justify the emphatic nature of some of the statements being made, in that it is not as exhaustive as the information which you can obtain about, say, an amplifier's performance, especially as it pertains to one individual. Before you go off on another one, I refer to the sort of experience that would stand up under blind testing.

I make calls based on the evidence. Attempting to conflate two completely different situations and mocking me for arriving at (God forbid!) two different conclusions does you no credit at all. Doing this whilst misrepresenting one of the conclusions ("crusade against anyone who doesn't use the O2") is simply disingenous. Combine it with half a metric tonne of misconceptions about the evidence supporting the O2's  transparency, suitably condescending tone and you've got a quality piece of straw man-centric asshattery.

As for my comment about the HD800 and amplifiers, the specific post was from Purrin on Head-Fi. It is entirely possible I am remembering it incorrectly, but I suspect not. I can dig it up if you want? I don't think that'll help my wider point: you've got a virtual straw ecosystem going in the fallacy department.

Nope, I'm not going to stop here. Your sort really, really pisses me off. You take your scientifically illiterate crap, your absurd inversions of the burden of proof (I would explain, but frankly it's not worth my time) and then you actually adapt a tone of condescension! Even worse, it's not even worth correcting one ridiculous point, as it's all built on a pile of ridiculousness, each piece supporting and justifying the other. It's enough to drive a level-headed internet denizen crazy Laughing out loud. Getting banned from Head-Fi did wonders for my blood pressure.

Look, here's my email: wigmorebwiggers[at]googlemail[dot]com

If you feel like making sense, drop me a line. I would genuinely love to hear why I am completely wrong about all of this: I enjoy challenging my own belief system and have a knack for making time for arguments with random people on the internet who am absolutely sure that I'm wrong (hey, some people do stamp collecting, some play Call of Duty...). If you have something better to say, by all means fill me in. You'll find I'm much more polite when your post doesn't start from the assumption that I haven't thought my opinions on audio through.

ultrabike's picture
I think everyone has the

I think everyone has the right to disagree.

But here we go criticizing others for leaning "towards the dogmatic in places," for diving "into hyperbole on several occasions," qualifing their measurement efforts as "significantly non-exhaustive," and for waxing subjectivism "over the latest amplifiers"... (indeed, the first post to this article!)

Those are strong accusations IMO, against folks that are making an effort at figuring things out in order to "cut through the hype and price-tag" as a contribution to the community... Yet there is a demand for "a little more sensitively approached" tone after all these accusations have been made!

If you like Nwavguy products, you are not alone. He seemed to have done a good job. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the buck stops there. From your HF signature you have a "Cambridge Audio DACMagic"... Is it better, worse or the same than the ODAC to you? Which ever the answer, people have the right to disagree, and further try to figure out why things sound different to them... Maybe there is more than expectation bias to it.

Willakan's picture
I stand by those criticisms.

I stand by those criticisms. This is a good thing, as I said multiple times, but I have some reservations. That my post was first is neither here nor there.

ultrabike's picture
It's alright to be critical,

It's alright to be critical, but:

"You take your scientifically illiterate crap, your absurd inversions of the burden of proof (I would explain, but frankly it's not worth my time) and then you actually adapt a tone of condescension!"

Sounds as if you have a little bit more than just "reservations." Take it easy man...

"Men are respectable only as they respect" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Willakan's picture
Oh, that was just referring

Oh, that was just referring to what anaxilus said. I stand by that as well, but that does not reflect my opinion on Changstar.

EDIT: Reading further, the general tone of the whole site seems somewhat different from that expressed in the "State of the Hobby" pdf...and despite my disagreements I couldn't help but smile at what Purrin has written under his avatar Laughing out loud...

Shike's picture
DACMagic

Your ODAC and DacMagic comparison are invalid, since one is only a USB DAC and the other supports TOSLINK/SPDIF/USB.

In terms of performance they mostly measure in the same ballpark.

 

Just thought I'd point that out.

ultrabike's picture
Thanks! I went to a meet

Thanks! I went to a meet where the ODAC was available, but somehow missed it! I spent much more time with the Leckerton UHA6 mkII which IMO is a very good product.

Also, I have no experiense with the DACMagic either, but FWIW by reading at the specs DACMagic uses a Wolfson WM8742 24bit DAC, while ODAC - ESS Sabre ES9023. Implementation maybe a little different to...

Would be nice to see how these two measure up against eachother!smiley

Beagle's picture
Get a life!

"The site isn't a marketting exercise or sociological experiment in harmony.  If anything, it's a counterreaction to both extremes currently prevailing.  A reaction against the overly sensitive that require treading on eggshells like our canine pseudonymed friend here and those that think, rather, know they have the audio engineering universe understood entirely to the point that any subjective impressions filtered via ear/brain are worth less than zero and therefore have THEY have right to tell people what they think they are hearing"

You really are a totally obnoxious annoying knobhead. You must have got the shit kicked out of you constantly during primary school years. Have fun with your little numbers. 

rhythmdevils's picture
Wow.  Amazing how butthurt

Wow.  Amazing how butthurt people get when we Pirates point out problems in their favorite headphones. 

For the record, Beagle is mad at Changstar and Purrin because of the distortion Purrin and Anaxilus heard and measured in the SRH1840 and he finds this offensive because he likes them.  It seems that all his future happiness is riding on their perfection. 

It's unfortunate that this kind of middle way subjective and objective headphone analysis is taken so personally by people. 

Beagle's picture
Perfect...

How ironic that you used "butt" and "pirates" in the same sentence. I always figured you were one of purrin's minions..

 

And BTW, I've never heard the 1840..